Boosting Brand Loyalty Through Sensory Experiences

Unlock the secrets to crafting a successful customer journey as Chris Anderson sits down with Mark Stern, the innovative founder of Custom Box Agency. Discover how businesses can elevate customer experiences by strategically mapping out the journey from acquisition to retention. Mark shares his game-changing insights on the often-overlooked human element in business, emphasizing the need for a clear end goal and a structured onboarding process. By treating the journey as a powerful sales tool, learn how you can enhance customer satisfaction, minimize refund requests, and increase lifetime value.

But that's not all—Chris and Mark explore the unique strategy of integrating physical boxes into digital offerings. This approach not only differentiates your brand but also creates a multi-sensory, premium experience for customers. Hear success stories from various industries and see how this strategy can be tailored to different price points, enhancing client satisfaction and generating referrals. As we wrap up, gain insights into maximizing customer lifetime value by crafting impactful initial experiences and strategically introducing new resources. This episode promises to equip you with invaluable tools to ensure your clients remain engaged and aware of the full scope of your services.

Chapters

• 0:00 Defining the Customer Journey in Business
• 11:54 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Box Delivery
• 22:49 Maximizing Customer Lifetime Value

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Elevate Media Podcast with your host, chris Anderson. In this show, chris and his guests will share their knowledge and experience on how to go from zero to successful entrepreneur. They have built their businesses from scratch and are now ready to give back to those who are just starting. Let's get ready to learn, grow and elevate our businesses. And now your host, chris Anderson.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Welcome back to another recording of the Elevate Media Podcast. I'm Chris Anderson, your host, and today we're going to be diving into what a customer journey looks like with your business, how to do it well and maybe some unique ways to do it and stand out amongst everyone else. So, bringing on an expert in this topic, mark Stern. He's the founder of Custom Box, mark Stern, who is the founder of Custom Box Agency, and he's got lots and lots of experience doing this. He's been through the ropes of creating personalized and good customer journeys. So, mark, welcome to the Elevate Media Podcast today.

Speaker 3: 1:02

Thrilled to be here, chris, so I'm excited about this.

Speaker 2: 1:05

Absolutely so. I think the customer journey is something that can kind of get forgotten a little bit. In all the what needs to be done and the deliverables and the product itself, we kind of forget about the in-between getting the client and then getting them the result, that journey part. So why is that customer journey so crucial for a successful business?

Speaker 3: 1:30

So many reasons why. For me, when it comes to customer journey, the way we define journey is it's the sequence of events to get people to some type of outcome. I always tell clients there's 3 different types of journeys. There's the acquisition journey. So how do you go about having people discover you to buying your products and services? I can build a whole campaign around that. Second journey is delivery. So it's from onboarding, when people buy your products and services, to getting them that first quick winner, big outcome, or is it retention?

Speaker 3: 1:57

It's all about extending lifetime value. To your question why is this important? Well, when people buy your products and services, they're buying some type of outcome, some type of promise that you're selling them. And when we look at the journey, do you have a clear pathway to take them from what we call start here to this desired outcome? And when you can define that piece, we see so many things happen. You get results faster for your people. You can incentivize behavior.

Speaker 3: 2:23

Once I have that journey defined, I can gamify your business. I can turn your business into a game. I can show you ways to extend lifetime value by certain junctions of that journey, introducing new products or services, or when people get to the end. They know what success looks like because they can see the journey and see what success looks like. And the last thing I always tell clients is once you define it, not only is it helpful for when people buy your products and services, but this could also be utilized as sales collateral, so I can show the journey to say, when you buy my products and services, here's the recipe, how we're going to get you the result faster, and I don't see a lot of businesses doing that, but it's a really powerful sales tactic when you do it right. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:04

And I think that is crucial. Why don't you see many?

Speaker 3: 3:07

doing that, do you think? I think for some people, they get overwhelmed, they don't know how to do this step by step, and it's so funny. I consult with so many businesses and what I like to do is hold up a mirror to exactly what they're doing, and sometimes people don't realize what it is. This is a big problem. Do you understand what you're asking your customers to do? And I think a lot of people just get excited about the outcome and excited about the product that they forget to understand that there's a human being that is actually gonna be navigating through your products and services. So that's something that for me, it's just such a common missed opportunity. But it's to be honest, we have consulted with hundreds of businesses and very few have a clearly defined success path for their people.

Speaker 2: 3:55

Okay, so how can we start defining that a little bit better?

Speaker 3: 3:59

Yeah. So I always say start with the end in mind Anytime you do a journey. What is the outcome so? So I always say start with the end in mind Anytime you do a journey. What is the outcome? So, what does success look like?

Speaker 3: 4:08

So, after you navigate my products and services, do I have a definition for what success looks like? Once you have that, then we go to the beginning and define the onboarding process. How are you equipping people for the journey that they're about to take? Are they aware of the tools and resources that they have access to? Are they clear on the next step or what they need to focus on that part of the junction? So think about it this way I live in Austin, texas. I'm going to be heading to Cabo at the end of the week. Nice, no, I'm thrilled there's a business mastermind down there that I'm heading down to. In order for me to plan my journey from Austin to Cabo, I have to know that the end destination is Cabo. Now I can plan my tickets, my trip, I get the hotel and everything. If I don't have that defined, it's almost like pursuing a pathway going somewhere where the end destination is not clear.

Speaker 3: 4:54

So any journey, it starts with defining the back anchor. Then you go to the front and define the front anchor For onboarding. Big things you want to watch out for are reducing overwhelm, because what happens a lot of businesses is people jump into your products and services and you think you have like this amazing product, but then you overwhelm them so much that they don't know where to begin. And if they don't know where to begin, they will oftentimes disappear. They will request the refund because they don't want to feel like a failure and people tend to not put the blame on you. They tend to put the blame back on themselves.

Speaker 3: 5:28

Something's wrong with me. There must be a reason why I'm struggling getting started and oftentimes it's because the onboarding process has not been clearly defined. And then through that we can define the phases or the stages or the steps to go from onboarding to outcome. And with each phase we go through an exercise with our clients that all they need to do is if they're in phase one or stage one of what we're trying to achieve. Once you complete that and move on to stage two, I can say you've been through a transformation because you're no longer in stage one or phase one. You're now in phase two and here's what you need to do to get through phase two. So it's all about the micro ones until we get to the big outcome.

Speaker 2: 6:06

Okay, so how do we, can you say, people get overwhelmed. So what's a good way to make sure they get started and not feel overwhelmed at the beginning? Onboarding station.

Speaker 3: 6:16

Yeah, I always tell clients think about other institutions or avenues that you've been through. When you go to college, typically you go through an orientation. Orientation is about to say when you're in college, you're embarking on a four-year journey to getting a degree. Orientation is all about. Let me walk you through what to expect how to find the classes, how to navigate campus life, introducing you to extracurriculars. So think about it as a way of learning how to play the game before you play the game. Anytime you play a board game, typically you want to read the rules. Anytime you play a video game, typically they teach you how to use the controllers and take you through baby steps so you're prepared for the more complex elements of the game.

Speaker 3: 6:54

Think about that in your business as well. Are we going through the process of making sure we are introducing what's available and for clients? This is something that you need to reinforce it again and again, and again. And so what we're known for is, after we define these box experiences or the customer journey, we build out these box experiences to blend in a lot of our clients in a big digital footprint, but no physical. So not only can we educate you through digital tools, but even when you receive the box, it's going to give you everything you know, a getting started guide, all the tools and resources to reinforce what you have access to and truly give them a step-by-step of how to start to navigate the product or services that you purchase. So that's how we start to look at it. I love to get inspiration from other institutions that already are doing it well. I just don't see businesses tapping into this in the same capacity.

Speaker 2: 7:45

Yeah, I think it's something it's kind of how we started off is kind of on the back burner because we want to acquire the clients and we want to get to the end result, whatever that is, and like the journey in between is lost sometimes. And you know, for us being video production agency, sometimes that can even happen, whether that be just with the lack of communication. Sometimes that can come up with all the moving parts or logistics of it. So how does that look different for someone like us who is doing a service-based where you might not have the client doing anything except being in the pre-production stuff and in the production itself, but in the post and everything they're not there. How could you you know if someone's in that kind of same area?

Speaker 3: 8:29

So even with an agency, that's a done for you. You know, with Custom Box Agency, the journey that I take my clients on is there's three steps or three phases. Phase one is what we call activate and I can say in phase one what we're trying to do is define the strategy for the campaign we're going to build out. The end of phase one, what you can expect is that we'll have a blueprint defined to say this is the campaign we're going to build out of the box experience we're going to build out. Phase two is what we call build. This is where we go through the process of bringing to life the blueprint and getting it what we call ready for production. So for us, a typical box build has 30 to 50 pieces. May I can show you some. All right, it's here just to grab two. Uh, this is mahoney's box, this is miranda's, um summer's box, reset with miranda. And you can see each of these typically is about 30 to 50 pieces. So we define the structure in phase one. Now we're bringing it to life in phase two. So now you can see it. And then phase three is what we call deliver. So for us, deliver is all about sitting into production, managing the vendor process getting all the resources, assembling everything, activating the warehouse and providing the tools and resources. So, although a lot of this is done for you, the simple step of phase one activate.

Speaker 3: 9:42

Phase two, build phase three, deliver on that road to the outcome that we promise. At least it's educating them. The process is moving forward. So it doesn't necessarily mean that they're on the hook for every piece in this process, but at the very least we can show them a pathway. And so think about it as if you've ever ordered a pizza from Vamonos. One of my favorite things that they do is show the tracker Orders received. Now they're prepping the food. Now it's in the oven. Now it's doing a quality check. Now it's ready for pickup. Now it's in delivery. All that's telling the customer, consumer, patient is the process is moving forward. You're no longer at the beginning of the process. You're one step closer to that desired outcome, and that is what they're buying from you.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Yeah, that kind of ease of mind, clear communication and knowing where things are, and that's something we've improved upon since starting, too is just, people just want to know, because we were seeing that at the beginning stage People were like, hey, where are we at with this, where are we at with this? And so just having a better path of communication is part of it for sure. I like what you guys are doing at Custom Box Agency. Can you explain that real quick for people who might not know? You kind of mentioned and shown a little bit there. Tell us a little bit about what you do and how that makes it so unique for the customer journey.

Speaker 3: 11:07

Yeah, tell us a little bit about what you do and how that makes it so unique for the customer journey. Yeah, so we, uh we, love boxes and the reason we love boxes is that, um, I want to take up real estate in your house. I want to be top of mind, which you'll see, with a lot of the box experiences that we produce and what we do for me a lot of what this started is especially during the age of covid.

Speaker 3: 11:18

Um, we did boxes pre-covid, but we went all in on this business during COVID, and part of the struggle I had when I left corporate America and became an entrepreneur is I was like digital and producing more digital content. It's getting so oversaturated. Now we're in the age of AI. Pre-age of AI, over a billion pieces of data were being released a day. Now we have artificial intelligence releasing billions, if not tens of billions of pieces that are all competing for our attention, and so the digital game and selling digital products to me is getting so oversaturated because the barriers to entry are so low.

Speaker 3: 11:54

What's cool about having a physical box that I can send you with the tools and resources is that it's an instant point of differentiation. It's a new opportunity for you. What we tell clients is that experience is seen through the senses. So think about it the way that we experience if you go to Disney World or your favorite restaurant or the movie theater. It stimulates what you see, what you hear, touch, taste and smell when you look at the digital product. Everyone in the digital space is only competing for what you see and what you hear. The cool thing when I send you a box to complement what you see and hear is, all of a sudden I can activate more senses and create something that feels a lot more premium. And a lot of what's different about what we do is boxes can be any shape, size, finish you name it. We've done it before, but our most common box size is these smaller size boxes where we brand spine and part of it is.

Speaker 3: 12:45

I know I like to talk about this idea of the things we save. I know that when you read a book, typically people don't throw out the book. They put it on a bookshelf. So why not build boxes that are the size of a book that you can, when you utilize it, you can put it on the bookshelf, you can go back to it and reference again. I may say this is box one of four. So if you want to collect box two, three and four of four, you have to keep playing the game. So now it's open to keep people engaged. So there's just this whole new opportunity and that's what we try and explore is.

Speaker 3: 13:16

For me, one of the biggest challenges that I faced in the digital game was businesses were making it way too hard for me to get started and be successful with their products and services. I just wanted someone to send me everything that I needed, and so that's. What's cool about Box is that we can go through and say what do your customers need? So if you make them print out something or go buy something, that may put up an obstacle that would prevent them from being successful, they'll live in this mindset of someday I'll get to it. Yeah, it's in the box. They have everything they need. So I just removed that excuse and most of our boxes are kind of in that $15 to $30 range. We have boxes that are higher than that. We produce boxes that are lower than that. Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily need to break the bank to provide a good experience. It's just knowing how to navigate and really showing people what's possible.

Speaker 2: 14:04

Yeah, and I like that, and you know I can attest to that. So we, mark and I, met through Daniel Dinh, who was a guest previously on the show, and I actually still have his box in front of me on our bookshelf sitting there, yep, yep, yep. And so I mean, it's true, I got to throw it out, it's still there, it's still sitting up there, and so, yeah, I just like it because it's so unique and I think, like you mentioned, we are in such a digital age standing out, I send handwritten thank you letters that I still read to clients as a thank you for being a part of us, and it's got a logo and stuff, and it's awesome because I feel like that differentiates us versus just sending a thank you email. And so I like the creativity that you can put towards these boxes, and we discussed a little bit, as we're building out Elevation Nation, for these freelancers who are trying to build their own agency, something with boxes, kind of with what you said, just so they have it physically and can fall all that way, uh, on top of the video courses that they're going to have, kind of maintain them.

Speaker 2: 15:07

So, yeah, I think, and I think that's a big thing, is, you know, keeping that journey clear, um, user-friendly and unique to really, you know, have those people, those customers, go? Wow, okay One, I got the ROI, but it was such a pleasant journey going through that. It was cool, it was fun, it was simple. I want to refer people to it even more because a lot of times we pay for the experience, whether that be Dave and Buster's, whether that be a Topgolf, whether that be a sporting event like, you're paying for the experience and you can do that with your customer journey now too. 100%.

Speaker 3: 15:48

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:50

What's the most unique customer journey you've been through or helped create?

Speaker 3: 15:55

I'm curious, oh my gosh. It's so funny because people ask me like what's your favorite box? And I'm like I love all my boxes, all the tiles behind me as well, all the way covered, and then we have another office that has them as well. But every time a client comes to us it's so cool to just delve into their world. One of the things that I love to do with clients is that I have a lot of clients that are like they may sell high-ticket products or services, and one of the clients in particular came to me and she was like she works with dentists and she looked at the situation and was like she has a $35K and a $50,000 annual program really high ticket, and so there's less of me like you don't have to have a $35K or $50K program to do boxes. We have people who literally, like you don't have to have a 35k or 50k program to do boxes. We have people who literally, um, the daniel den itis that influence. This is a free plus ship. Part of it is just knowing your numbers and this is kind of where we can advise is an acquisition versus a delivery play completely different way than how I would consult.

Speaker 3: 16:53

But what was cool about. What she said was um, and this is the power of journey for people she helps a dentist, um, like, pull themselves out of the day-to-day of their business and start to build a lot more. Um, uh, like, like, how do I? She defines it almost like you are worthy of having a premium life and so how do I help you make more money and get out of the day-to-day to sell your business? And she said to me, when people join my program, it's really not a one-year program, it's about three years to truly maximize the opportunity. And then she started going into year one versus year two, versus year three. And the one thing I asked her was do you tell your customers or do you tell your clients that this is the three-year journey? And then this is what to expect year one, two, three. She said no.

Speaker 3: 17:43

The power of that is, let's just say I had a 50K offer per year and someone joins and sees what the big vision is, but you never anchor on. Here's what year one is about. And then here's what we'll transition to in year two. And then here's what year three is to realize this vision. That's the difference between a $50,000 lifetime value and 150,000. So if I say, hey, here's the outcome, it's a three-year journey. And before they even buy, they can see the themes for the three years and define the journey out for year one, two and three.

Speaker 3: 18:16

Leverage that in your sales collateral. It's a game changer to lifetime value, because now when people sign up, you've already planted the seed in their mind that this is a three-year journey, and not someone getting through year one to say, hey, I got through year one, we had a lot of growth as a result, but I'm still not financially free or able to pull myself out of the day to day. Well, that's the difference between defining the journey and setting expectations and then of just throwing people in there and like selling them on this big vision so it's small pivots. Like that could be game changing to you and it can be game changing to uh, for your customers too, because you're setting expectations as opposed to um, painting the vision but not anchoring it on uh, a timing element, uh, so hopefully that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 18:59

Yeah, yeah. And so, like I'm curious, with these boxes and these journeys you've created so that's a year has there been one that sticks out, that's like super, super unique or like really made you guys have to stretch on how to, to, to deliver that so funny?

Speaker 3: 19:16

We oh my gosh, we have so many and and they're all so different. But right now we are about to launch and I'm really excited about this box A box for small business owners. My friend has a software platform and in the software platform it provides all the tools and resources to help local business owners. So just think about your local market business a lot of brick and mortar businesses. A lot of brick and mortar businesses. Help them easily understand their numbers and their KPIs and where to scale up and scale down ad spend by just seeing the trends, and they built a whole software around this.

Speaker 3: 19:49

He loves DaVinci and so for the box experience that we built, he wanted to pack it with Easter eggs, and that's something that's really cool about a box is that I can hide tips and tricks and anything. So imagine getting a box that you think it's one experience and as you go through it, even the box itself can be manipulated to unlock additional secrets. For instance, one of those things that we're playing with in his box is a false bottom, meaning when you go box, you see it looks like a normal box, but at some point something's going to tell you to push through a hole in the bottom of the box and it's going to unlock a whole other division of the box that you didn't even know was there right in front of you the whole time. His box has money bags that have locked codes on it, almost like an escape room. Then at a certain point of his product it's going to give you the code to unlock some additional tools and resources and, in the spirit of da vinci, he wanted a cryptex. So if you're in the da vinci code where they have the cryptex, it's this little device that you manipulate the letters and then it cracks open with the code inside um, the same thing. So we had a cryptex as part of it with like a customizer. So I'm just saying that like that's.

Speaker 3: 20:58

The cool thing is that with any of these boxes, if you can dream it, you know we're going to try our best to bring it to life. But typically, if something's been done before, we've had journey maps that had scratch offs. So think about scratch we've had scratch and sniffs come to life. So when people went through the inexperience and things like you have a sense of smell activated, um, you name it. There's some way that we're going to figure out, but it has to make sense for the experience there All physical and digital, or physical and local. Look, you want it to feel like one cohesive experience and you don't want to over-engineer it in a way that makes it so difficult for people to understand how to navigate, so that simplicity and elegance and how it's arranged is really important to us.

Speaker 2: 21:37

That's a good point. And, yeah, I is really important to us. That's a good point. And yeah, I like that. I like the creativity you can bring to it and even if you don't use boxes, like your customer journey, you can still have that creativity and you can solve your personality and you can solve that within it Boxes. We just talked because you know Mark O'Neill Custom Box Agency and it's such a unique direction with it too. So just think about that and think how you can make it fun and make it simple still a good user experience. Um, because that'll that'll resonate and people will be able to talk about it. Okay, I was doing this course and I had to do a cryptex, like I had to open up a like it's just fun. So, yeah, like, those are ways to go about it, um, you know. So with that, do you find if you have a good customer experience like that, it doesn't have to be maybe a puzzle or anything like that, but just a good experience, a good path that that creates more repeat clients?

Speaker 3: 22:34

It does, because, for me, one of the things that I believe is I don't think that clients are looking for multiple mentors to solve their problems. I think they're looking for one trusted mentor that understands their business and communicates in a way that helps them get a result faster. If you help me get a result faster, typically the next question is well, how else can you serve me? And I can say one of the things that I even see in my own business is, before we launched the first box for a client, literally at the workshop. So we're talking phase one, beginning of the process. They're already talking to me about box two, three, four, five, and I'm all about like, let's focus on box one. But the way that like for us this is why that quick one is so important in the business is that if you can give me a quick one early on, one you have my attention to, I'm instantly going to think about well, how else can you support me in my business? So that's the power of really defining a really good experience is that if you have something that gives me to a result, that's what I'm looking for is that I don't want to keep nodding, my head up and down, going okay, but I don't take action to what you're, to why I bought your products and services.

Speaker 3: 23:41

When I hire people, it's because I want a result, and that's the big thing is that if I can help you get there, typically clients are like okay, we're ready for the next thing. For us, what's a blessing is because we take you through this experience, when we design out these experiences we are good at design Every box. A lot of times what happens is there's been many businesses that we've accidentally rebranded. We didn't intend to rebrand them, but in some capacity, as we're going through showing what's possible and basically giving them what they're asking for, we start to create all these assets that then evolve the brand in a really powerful way. And in doing so, when you start to help them reimagine the brand and then build the experience and then set up the warehouse, the cool thing about that is they're instantly thinking about a more long-term play with you, just because you've now injected yourself in a really powerful way into their business about as you're creating this journey and as you're delivering on your services or products?

Speaker 2: 24:48

is those added benefits kind of thing, those things you over-deliver in the ways you make yourself sticky within the business, that they're going to come back and say, okay, how can you help us with this? You've done this, what's next? Kind of thing. So I think that's a great way to think about it as you're building it, but focusing on the, the task at hand, I guess you could say, before trying to get everything at once. And so you know, like, with that cause, the journey could be, depending on what you're doing, the length of it could be, depending on what you're doing, could the lengths of it could be different. The customer, you know, um, that lifetime value of a customer, that lifetime could look different. You know in the time span. So how, and that's kind of what you're getting at right like you have a certain lifespan for one thing, but then, uh, you feel another need after that. They're more connected with you too. Do you find these boxes, these unique experiences, expand that customer lifetime?

Speaker 3: 25:52

value. Yeah, I mean, there's so many different ways to spend it because we work with so many different industries and verticals. So our big ones are we work with a lot of software as a service companies. How do we get people utilizing the platform in the first 30 days? Info products so think, of course, creators, virtual events challenges that's another category we play with Service providers doctors, lawyers, chiropractors, real estate agents. They all fit in that service provider category agency owners, ecom products. And the final one is coaching programs.

Speaker 3: 26:23

We work with a lot of people who have coaching programs. Each of these have very different lifespans for their products and services. A lot of what I like to look at is what you don't want to do is give people a year's worth of stuff in a box experience if it's a year's worth of program and all of our programs or all of our clients have different products and services with different links. So for the initial product, if it's a longer window to get the result, I've subscribed to a year-long coaching program or signed up to work with a certain service provider for a year. Typically, what I may do is show you the journey for the year, but just give you the tools and resources you need for that first quick win and then, as people hit certain milestones, I may trigger the next piece and the next piece. This is really powerful in memberships, because when you think about a membership, it's a month-to-month fee and every month you see yourself getting hit with that expense. So this is again. I don't want to give you a year's worth of materials. If it's a membership program, you're paying month to month. But what I may do is I may say here's what to expect over the next full month. So you find the seed that you stay active, look at the journey that you're about to go on. But I may only give you what you need the first three months and, if I know my numbers and people tend to unsubscribe in month four. Well, that's a perfect junction to introduce the next box or the next piece of the equation, to reactivate and then.

Speaker 3: 27:45

So what you're saying is, even when you complete a journey. This is why, in anything that we do, it's important to see the universe of you. People may buy a product or service in front of you, that they may have purchased some type of product or service of a product or service, but if you don't see the universe of all the different ways that you can help them. Then, when it gets to the end, I want them to already know OK, now that I'm here and have achieved this result, they have the solution to my next problem because they've planted that seed about their universe and how they can help. So that's kind of where you can start to extend lifetime. Value is that you're not just sneaking up on me and dumping another offer on me. You are like sufficiently seeding the next way to help me, and so it becomes a no-brainer that when you put that offer in front of me, I'm like yep, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Let's keep going, yeah, yeah, and I think those are all crucial things to think about. And again, this has been a really good conversation because, like we mentioned earlier, I think this gap in between acquisition and fulfillment is forgotten or not thought really well on, and so this has been really good. I know those listening. It's been eye-opening for a lot of them. I'm sure they're going to start to kind of see and map out that journey for their clients and how to improve it and how to better serve along the way. So, mark, if people want to get connected to you, find out more about you and learn from you, where's the best place they can do that?

Speaker 3: 29:10

Yeah, thank you for asking. Best place is through your customboxagencycom and once you hit that website you can see some examples of our work. But the top right-hand corner you can schedule a free assessment with our team. They're happy to hop on a call with you and answer any questions you may have, and then I always tell people. I love hearing what people are doing, and so if you want to message me, facebook or LinkedIn are 2 great places. Just look up Mark Stern. You may see a picture of me. I don't know if I'm doing a Spartan race or I feel like it's either professional looking or smart. Um, so if you see someone coming out of mud, it's me awesome.

Speaker 2: 29:50

Yeah, so make sure you get connected with mark. Just need to learn from them. Reach out if you need help or if you want to go this direction again. Mark, it's been great conversation. I appreciate your time and you sharing all this. Yeah, thanks so much for being on the Elevate Media Podcast today.

Speaker 3: 30:04

Appreciate you, chris. It was good, I had a good time, so really appreciate the time.

Speaker 2: 30:07

Absolutely. And everybody listen, make sure you share this with someone who might be trying to build out their customer journey or who's trying to get their business going. But until next time, make sure you go out there, continue to elevate your life, elevate your brand, and we'll talk to you again soon.

Speaker 1: 30:22

Thank you for listening to the Elevate Media Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. See you in the next episode.