The Elevate Media Podcast
Join Chris as he chats with successful business owners and entrepreneurs and shares his own lessons and successes of building Elevate Media Group.
His mission is to help coaches bring in more clients through video podcasting and content creation so they can elevate their brands and become the experts in their industries without all the time spent doing it.
The Elevate Media Podcast
Elevate Your Brand Through Strategic Networking
Ever wondered how to turn your passion into a thriving business? Join us for a captivating conversation with Mike and AJ from Agency Coach, who reveal their journey from the early days of entrepreneurship to running a successful agency. Mike shares his fascinating story of launching a web design company in 2003, a time when the digital world was a far cry from what it is today. Hear how personal motivations, like his love for music and his relationship with his now-wife, fueled his determination to succeed despite grappling with imposter syndrome.
Uncover the secrets to business growth that many overlook, as Mike and AJ discuss the power of nurturing existing client relationships over chasing endless new leads. Their personal anecdotes provide valuable lessons on leveraging the potential of past clients for upselling and referrals, turning your network into a goldmine. Learn why an abundance mindset is critical, especially during economic uncertainty, and how focusing on core strengths and recurring revenue can lead to sustainable success.
As we wrap up, you'll be inspired to elevate both your life and your brand. Embrace the power of connecting with like-minded individuals and utilizing available resources for continuous growth. Mike and AJ urge you to stay engaged and motivated, inviting you to continue this journey of improvement alongside them in future episodes. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a seasoned business owner, this episode is packed with insights to help you thrive.
This episode is NOT sponsored. Some product links are affiliate links, meaning we'll receive a small commission if you buy something.
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Welcome to the Elevate Media Podcast with your host, chris Anderson. In this show, chris and his guests will share their knowledge and experience on how to go from zero to successful entrepreneur. They have built their businesses from scratch and are now ready to give back to those who are just starting. Let's get ready to learn, grow and elevate our businesses. And now your host, chris Anderson.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another recording of the Elevate Media Podcast. I'm Chris Anderson, your host Today. If you're watching the video, it's going to look a little bit different. This is not our new studio, but we're here with Mike and AJ of Agency Coach, and they opened up their home, their office, their space to us to come record this episode, because we're down in tucson shooting a production for another client and stars aligned, you know, coincidence happens there in tucson and so it's just cool thing. So, mike, aj, thanks so much for one opening up your space and being on the show as well, so it's great to you know, have you in the studio.
Speaker 2:It's great to be on your podcast, yeah it's really cool and this is awesome, collaboration, right, like being able to do this with people and, and you know, share in everything and learn and and so, yeah, it's really cool and, um, can't wait to get this out there so you guys can share with your audience as well, so they can hear from you guys even more, and but, yeah, so, like we were talking kind of before we started, um, you guys have been the entrepreneurship space, of business space for a while now 2020 or 2003,. Excuse me, uh, where you guys started your agency, you know kind of let's, let's take a step back in 2023. What was that? Like, you know, taking that leap or taking that step to start a business? Um, yeah, just kind of dive in. You know, feet first right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you figure, at 2003,. If you really think about it, you know, know, it's like a whole another like dimension of time right from here. But it was, uh, you know, google was not the top search engine and we weren't carrying smartphones around in our pockets, youtube wasn't a thing, facebook wasn't a thing, right, and so, like, really, that business, our agency, was started as a web design company. And you know and even back then I didn't call it an agency it was like Mike Schmidt starts a web design company and tries to figure out if he can justify staying in Tucson after graduating college by starting this business. And if that didn't work, plan B was going to be not being around here and moving back home to California with my folks, and, and so this was my shot to like, make something happen and build a business that was going to support my, my future career. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm sure, like with that, there's some, there's so much. When you start a business it's like nerves imposter syndrome. We all hear it Like you know, how did you overcome some of that when you're first starting out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I'm fortunate that I just kind of jumped into it, like being willing to just figure it out. My, my dad was a big supporter of like just trying it out, so he paid for my, my Tucson chamber of commerce membership and I started going to breakfast meetings and, um, I was super uncomfortable like talking to these people who are easily twice my age and, um, none of them understood anything about web or marketing and that kind of stuff, and and it was just like, uh, um, you know, put myself out there and see, see what sticks, see what happens. And, like I said, the alternative was, you know, I had to go figure out something else. I'm like, well, I really want to make this work.
Speaker 3:I really want to you know, stay in Tucson I was. I was playing in a band, um, that I didn't want to leave. I was dating a girl who I didn't want to leave became my wife, and so I'm like, what are the, what are the ways in which I can do this? You know, think, figure in 2003, the job prospects for a web designer, especially in Tucson, arizona, like there wasn't companies that were like, hey, we need somebody with your skillset. At that time it wasn't all over the place. There was like a few, maybe, pockets of opportunity, but like, by and large, like the opportunities for somebody with my skillset was not here, yeah Right. And you know, virtual and remote work also was not a thing. So I literally had to go somewhere else to tap into the thing that I wanted to do or, you know, build it myself.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. And you know a couple of things that I can connect with what you said about you're going to these networking events, talking to people who really don't really know what you're talking about or understand it. You know from the video aspect, even video podcast Like, so I get that in such it can be a hurdle, but I think it's fun to have try to explain it, show them, because then when you they start to get it and they start to implement those things, like when it helps their business, which means they have more people, uh, but it's just cool to see the growth that they can have from that. And then you mentioned, like your why was almost big enough. Like I love being in this band, I don't want to leave it, and I, you know I'm with this girl who you know you've stuck around, and she stuck around. She probably would have come to California Okay, yeah, probably wouldn't do our.
Speaker 2:But, like you, add that why, which you know helps people through those hard times. Now, aj, when did you come into the picture? How did you guys get connected in this together?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I came in in 2008. Mike had already been running it for a few years. I I was working in a corporate environment for Intuit, managing the online communities for like QuickBooks and TurboTax and Quicken, and you know I felt like a really small cog in this huge machine. It was really hard for me to understand, like how the work I was doing day in and day out was really like impacting anything you know. So I was looking for an opportunity to work maybe more closely with the people that I was helping.
Speaker 4:Mike had put an ad out for a job that's a website strategist and what he was really looking for was somebody to help with sales. And it's interesting that he put web strategist, because if he would have put website sales, I would have never applied. Like at that time I just thought sales was a bad thing and it was like trying to manipulate people and it was like that sleazy car salesman is like all those things that some people think when they think about sales. And because he put website strategists, I was like cool, this is kind of what I'm doing. It into it. You know I'm managing our web strategy and I know I like helping people and if people want, he was suggesting, because we have a very consultative sales approach, you know, and we're not trying to convince somebody to need something.
Speaker 4:It's about them coming to us and say, hey, I want help with my online presence. You know what do you suggest, and not simply suggesting things, right, and not feeling the pressure to like close them on it. It's like you know, here's what you're trying to do, here's how I think you should go about doing it, and if you want our help with it, I'd love to do that. If not no big deal, right. And so that blossomed into you know, obviously, a lot of success in being able to, um, you know, sell to people. And, uh, I'm proud to say that I'm a salesperson. It wasn't, I wasn't born that way. It didn't feel natural. But we've come up with ways that we can make sales not seem like sales Right and I did it the right way, which I like.
Speaker 2:That's really awesome. So, mike, how crucial or how big was that shift when you brought AJ on? Did you notice it right away, or was it kind of just a slow thing where you're like, wow, this changed everything? Was it like that or what was that bringing him on?
Speaker 3:Yeah, early on, wow, I'm this. Changed everything like was it like that, or you know what was that bringing him on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, early on it was, it was clear that this was going to work out. Yeah, I had tried unsuccessfully, twice before meeting aj to bring people on to sell. The first guy, um, he actually came to me one day. He says, mike, I think you should fire me. I was like really, why, what's going on? He's like well, mike, I haven't sold anything since I've been here. I was like such a nice guy. I was like, uh, yeah, I guess. So like, yeah, maybe you should go. And it's like like I mean, he's how cool of it of him to like step up because I wasn't right. I think that was also like we really highlighted the fact that I wasn't leading anybody through that process and I didn't know what I was doing. So, um, with that as with that as my first experience, I'm like, well, I'll try the exact same thing again. I hired another guy. This guy did sell like maybe one thing, but like eventually, uh, he quit and um collected unemployment. It was like I'm like I don't think it works, like that.
Speaker 3:Um, but I was just like really frustrated. I'm like I've tried this twice. Um, I had already given up project management and I was wearing that sales role, that sales hat, and so I was trying to figure out how to get myself out of that. So at that point I kind of just resigned myself to saying, listen, I'm going to be in sales for I don't know how long I'm willing to do it, but sure would be nice to find someone to come in who could just call my existing opportunities that you know, just like I don't have time to reach out to them. I know there's money in my backyard, there's gold in my backyard, but I just don't have anybody go to do it.
Speaker 3:So that was kind of the idea behind this web strategy roles. I'm like, listen, if you understand web and web strategy, you could call a client, you could look at their situation, you look at their website and be like I think we should do this and that no-transcript. I'm like I don't want to work with those people. So that's what it is. He went south to bottom and started calling on those opportunities to calling on those opportunities, and so pretty quickly it was evident that not only was he good at web strategy, but that calling your existing base of clients to help them see what else we could do for them is like a massive opportunity and it's like something big inside of our teaching and coaching that we really focus on, because I think most businesses on the planet, especially agency owners, just do a terrible job of going back to their old clients.
Speaker 3:Most of them will enter our world and be like Mike AJ, I need more leads. I'm like cool, it's not what you need, right? Especially if you've been in business for a period of time and had any measure of success. Well, there are folks that you've already attracted into your world, right? Many of which you've already paid you money, what's to say, they wouldn't do that again, or even the people that you attracted before that didn't ever hire you. Like, what are you doing to get back in front of those people? You did such hard work and spend money to get in front of them and they just didn't come over that trust tipping point to buy. Well, why would you give up then? Like, it's like you're almost there and then you just take these leads and you throw them in the trash, yep, and so that became a huge eye opener for us and something we've kind of baked into our culture ever since.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's so crucial and something you know that we've learned with Elevate is, you know, the easiest person to sell to is someone you've already sold to 100% and like.
Speaker 2:So, like clients that we've been working with for a while, like for us, we'll go look at their you know their websites or you know their main point of contact for their, for their leads, and check out their videos, especially if they have a brand store or if they don't like, hey, these are like 10 years old, they're really outdated. Like we could help you if you're open to it or if you want that, and most of them are like, oh yeah, like we do need that right. So, like they're already know, like and trust you and you're doing good work and so, like following up with what you can help them, you know how we can elevate them has been a, you know, just much easier door to to walk through absolutely and then going back to people who have been clients in the past or think people you already started build relationships, just know it's just simpler. And then let referrals, word of mouth, bring in those newer leads that you nurture as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's marketing metrics. They did a study that said that your existing clients are up to 14 times easier to sell to than somebody who doesn't know you at all. Do you want a 14 times advantage? Yeah. Or do you want to go and and throw that advantage away with a new, with somebody brand new? Yeah, I think if you're not going back to those existing clients or people who already know who you are and nurturing the relationship, making them offers, making sure they understand what it is you do, like you're, you're, you're throwing away a massive advantage. That doesn't have to be that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of like like us, like it's, it's an upsell for what we can do past what we initially start with. Most of the time, like when we start the video podcast and the monthly edits, and then when we throw in like hey, we can do a video production and do this, or training video edits, things like that, like. So you're, like you're what your client is quote-unquote worth increases because of that, that jump in that thing too, so you can increase your profit margins or you can expand, um, how you're doing in that regard. And so I think we forget that a lot of times as we're trying to just hustle and you know, I just need to reach more people and throw money to ads when they don't necessarily know how to target those, those people in the, in the wording behind it. So, um, I think that's such a good piece that we hit on for sure.
Speaker 2:But I also want to hit on kind of your guys' journey too. You know you guys have figured out super successful. You know, over 20 years now doing business, which is awesome, um, and it's, you know, you know, elevate. We've just been in business since 2021. And so it's like I always for like I get like impatient like I'm, I'm hurry, but patient at the same time because it's like, oh, okay, we've come this far. Great, this is awesome. So grateful for that. I want to be the next, like I want to keep going and so like seeing people like you guys who've been through the trenches, through, you know, the OA recession, the COVID things, and continued to grow and stuff is it's it's always a positive thing to see and like, okay, yeah, we can keep going and get through. You know, whatever comes, how how were those challenges for you? You know you had the economic shift in 08 and 09 era and in the COVID stuff. How did you guys cope, kind of navigate those waters when they got a little?
Speaker 4:rough. Yeah, it's interesting that you bring that up, because both of those periods of times were actually two of the biggest times of our growth, right, like you know, I think when people like fall for the story that's going on in the media and the views that, hey, the economy's down and nobody's doing anything, it's like if you start to believe that, then that's going to be 100% true, right, right, yeah. But what's also true is that there's a lot of businesses that maybe weren't as aggressive with marketing that are like, hey, I need to kick things into gear because I don't want my business to go on here. Right, and so, if, if you're showing up for those people with that abundance-based mindset, you're going to track them. And you know, companies that were spending money with us started spending more money with us.
Speaker 4:Other companies that you know were kind of just on cruise control and didn't feel the need to market were now all of a sudden like I need to start investing in marketing. Right, and so 2008 was great for us. It led to, you know, one of our first seven-figure years. And then, you know, during COVID, same type of thing happened. You know where we were out there, still talking to people, and, you know, giving them hope and telling them they should invest in marketing, and because of that, you know, it really worked out well for us.
Speaker 3:It doesn't mean there wasn't a moment where we're like, oh yeah, I mean, like you know, we say often that this is one of the best times in history to own a marketing company, web or digital agency, simply because in a great economy, people have money to invest in marketing and need your help. In a bad economy, people are worried and invest money because they need your help. So it's like there might be different people and, of course, in both of those time periods we had clients that stopped working with us and a big reason for them was because they believed that they needed to shrink. We had other clients in the same industry, right, who doubled down on their efforts and grew during that time. I think my favorite story from the pandemic was we had one of our sales guys calling down the list of you know, just cold calling, because he wasn't going to in-person stuff anymore and all that stuff, right, he's calling pool companies the first, one of the first people he gets ahold of answers and, um, they said they heard his like brief pitch about who we are and what we could do and they and they cuss him out. They're like what are you kidding me? Do you know what's going on right now in this economy? How could you be calling us at a time like this? Right, thankfully he has a thick skin. Yeah, he keeps dialing. Good. A couple of dials later he gets a hold of someone else and they said, oh my gosh, this is so awesome. Thank you for calling. We were literally just having a meeting about this. How we need to talk to somebody about exactly what you guys do. When can we a awesome project for us and it's something that's turned into like you know, a lifetime value of that client North of a hundred grand? Right, and it's like how is it that two businesses, same city, literally down the street from one another, and we've got, uh, one that's abundance minded and one that's, like, ready to punch us in the face, right, um, and I think the answer is there are abundance minded thinkers out there. We just have to tap into those folks. And and, um, um, I think I'm I'm kind of lucky in 2008. I don't even think I realized there was a recession happening. I mean, I quite I'm not.
Speaker 3:I've never been a particularly heavy news watcher Like I'll go through seasons of stuff where I get sucked into, but like I think my people out there is like delete the news apps. Yeah, cull all that stuff out of your mind because, like truthfully, you have more control over your own abilities and your influence than you give yourself credit for, and if you allow other people to plug their information into your brain, you might start believing a false story. Yep, that's not real and and and. So when people ask about how was in 2008, I'm like it was great, but I didn't.
Speaker 3:I just thought that that was like news always news is right. It always does the thing that news does, which is like the world's falling apart, and so, like I just kind of assumed that 2008 was just more of that. Yeah, and so I'm like lucky that I was so blind to it, because then, as 2020 came around, while I did start to fall into the you know, you know, do you want to crawl under the blanket? Just like for a minute I did, but then I started to realize I'm like well, this is like that other time and people need us. And then we proved it to ourselves.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and what was so cool about that story is once we saw that with the pool companies, we're like cool, all right.
Speaker 4:So now we know, like it's, it's not about the industry, right, the business owner being abundance minded.
Speaker 4:And so we started coming up with things and reaching out and emailing and doing ads that were all about attracting that type of person.
Speaker 4:Right, we had a webinar that was all about how to activate how to attract and activate businesses who still want to grow in an uncertain time, right, and we were able to get a ton of people on that. And guess what? The people that would register for that webinar are the ones that still believe that there's opportunity out there. Right, and it was all the people that we wanted to talk to, because we could have still, like brunt, forced it and cold called all these people and got hung up on all the time, but instead we just changed our marketing message, and what was so cool about that is we were able to prove that to ourselves. But then, now that we have this agency coach thing, we were then able to share those strategies with all these other agencies all over the world who are in a similar boat, and it worked for them too, right, so we were able to like have a global impact on agencies during a time where I think a lot of the world needed that stuff, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:And it's so crazy, yeah. So, like I said, I quit my job in COVID like 2020 to figure out how to start a business. So it was a crazy time, but that was kind of like my perspective. Like you know, I know that I won't give up, so I know someone's got it like, someone's got to give and I can always get a job if I had to and so I started getting clients, started getting clients leaned into it more and got myself out of the way, which I think is a big thing starting out, and then it just kind of started evolving. And then it was of the way, which I think is a big thing starting out, and then it just kind of started evolving.
Speaker 2:And then it was like the beginning of 2023, end of 2023, it seemed like people were with like the you know, politics and everything going on in the world, like people started getting fearful and so we lost some clients as well, but we also gained some and, you know, increased that lifetime value of our clients and started doing these productions, and so it just same in ours.
Speaker 2:Like even being young, like you have those mindsets that people who just want to hold on to it, and just kind of, you know, skid by why they can, or those who want to invest, like you said, and continue growing those times. And I think it's always something to think about and don't get discouraged like, have the thick skin like your salesperson did, like if someone gets mad or says no, it's like they're not for you, they're not right the one for you, or that they're not ready for you. Yeah, um, and and just keep moving forward. And you know I've heard you guys mentioned a couple times the webinars you guys have done and brought it in. Is that kind of your main marketing strategy? To get new leads or connect with new people, or help people to get them kind of into your quote unquote funnel or, you know, to continue to add value to them until they're ready to work with you?
Speaker 3:I mean, it's definitely one of our key plays when it comes to marketing. For our agency coach, it's been an awesome way for us to connect with a large group of people and provide value. I think you know when you you asked the question earlier about AJ coming on and what he was doing and how I, how I I talked about how I failed with sales before. Well, the shift and the difference was that he was coming in, providing value, calling people up and saying, hey, here's what I'm seeing as an expert, right, and that was what's drawing people in. I think webinars is another vehicle that we can use to provide value in advance in order to demonstrate our expertise and then get people to say, hey, I want to work with you. So, whether you know, using webinars from an agency standpoint right, and working with businesses that need digital marketing, webinars can be an awesome way to get a bunch of folks into a room, demonstrate that expertise, make them an offer to then make that next step with you. But also inside of Agency Coach, as we work to attract agencies, the same idea we put on webinars to provide value, to give insights and then make an offer for them to take the next step with us, and so it has been a key part of our arsenal in the last 10 years of just like, here's what you can do, and I think the pandemic became just a blessing for us in a lot of ways. We've already talked about some of those.
Speaker 3:Another one is the world runs on Zoom today. The world runs on Teams and Google Meets. That is not an obstacle for the average business owner today, whereas, you know, even as recently as before the pandemic, like that was some an obstacle that people put in their way. Yeah, and so we've just been able to tap into much broader audience and you know, if you would have told me back in 2003 that we could have a room full of you know, 50, 100, 500, whoever, however many people virtually so I a room full of you know 50, a hundred, 500, whoever, however many people virtually, so I could share this message, like you know, that would have blown my mind, yeah, and, and I think that we have these opportunities for us and that's just, that's just webinar, right, like I'm talking about other channels and social media and YouTube and all these ways in which we can kind of get known for what it is.
Speaker 2:we do, yeah, and so like how, how important is to kind of narrow it in to like what you're known for? You know people here like find your niche or narrow your marketing. You know, have a narrow vision. How important is that? Do you guys still believe that's important as you're growing, especially if you're starting out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think that we all are these like walking personal pins, right, and I think that we all are these like walking personal buttons, right. And I think I forget who said this, but you know, you point out, you know it's not that Tesla is the brand, it's Elon Musk, yeah, right, it's not that Apple's the brand, it's still Steve Johnson. He's been not with us for some time, right, right. And so I think that each of us has the ability to connect with people, you know, through social media and how we're showing up online, especially. That gets them to know what we're all about.
Speaker 3:And whether you like niche down into a particular industry, I think that's a choice that you, somebody, could choose to make. In our agency, you know, we haven't done that, we haven't needed to do that, simply because the thing that we've been known for is helping businesses to generate more customer activity. So there's lots of different ways to narrow down, but I do think that being known as something for something is a really key way for people to quickly file you into a category, into a folder, so that way, when opportunities come up, they either think, oh, I'll talk to this person, or they see, oh, I can refer this person, right? I think the mistake is trying to be everything to everyone, and that is recipe, for you're just diluting your message, folks, for sure, yeah, I think that's a great point for sure.
Speaker 2:You know, even with us, like we started, when we really really were like all right was taking off things like that, I was like I got excited. I was like, well, we can do. You know we have, because our team has the, the skills and the history of, of weddings, of real estate. I was like, oh, we could do not only the brand stories for businesses and promos and trainings and stuff, but we can do real estate and weddings. So I tried to build all of it at once and then quickly I was was like no, I was like it's taken like this is where we're really really good at and if those come cause people know we do video, that's great.
Speaker 2:But as far as our marketing, like staying in this lane has been good for us and is going to continue to, I think, benefit us until we can have, you know, the, the, the people kind of running those branches eventually where we can market it and things like that. But, yeah, I think you know being known, like, like you said, people will know who to call once they get to that point of of knowing you and what you do for sure. So, and you guys have mentioned a lot is providing value right and I think that's key and, like sales, like doing it, the right way, I think, is adding value to those people. So how do you guys guide your, you know, your, your coaching students, your agency students to add, actually add value? Because people say we want to add value, we like to add value, but are they actually adding value or are they just kind of asking for the sell kind of thing?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think a lot of agency owners fall in the trap of being what we call order takers right Like, they're waiting there for somebody to ask them for help, yep. And then, when they do, they're waiting for them to ask them what to do. Right, like, oh, they want a website, so I'm going to do a website. When you know, really like, we're the expert. Right Like, imagine you went into a doctor and you said hey, doc, you know I've had this pain back here in, like, my kidney area, and I was on WebMD last night and you know, I think I have this disease, I need to take it out. Right, right, you know go at it.
Speaker 2:You know what do you think the doctor's going to say, sit down, yeah.
Speaker 4:Let me ask you some questions. Let me examine you and take a look, and then I'll provide you with some recommendation and prescription of what I think needs to happen. Right, and so that's what we teach and that's what we do. Right Is that I don't care why somebody comes to us. You know understanding why they want to do what they're doing. So, like you know, a lot of times we'll get somebody that went.
Speaker 4:You know, I went to my veterinary conference and they said I need to do social media. So I want social media. And it's like cool, well, why do you want that? And well, I want more customers. Cool, well, let me, let me take you through a process where I can determine whether that's the best way to get that right now. Right, because there's some other basic things that you're just not doing or may not be doing, and so, um, once we can educate them on, you know, what's important in getting more customer activity.
Speaker 4:And then, assessing them in the different areas, it's clear where our recommendations need to be. So I don't care why somebody comes to us. They're going to go through the same process and I'm going to tell them what I suggest that they should do, versus again just taking their order. So that's proven to be a really different approach. A lot of times when we present our proposals to people, they're like wow, this is wild. I asked two other people and they just asked. I told them I needed seo and they said that's it. They didn't ask me any questions. Yeah, whereas like, we've had a thoughtful approach to it and suggested maybe that is what we suggested, but they still know that we did our due diligence to say yes, that is the right thing that you got right yeah, and it's kind of like like we have that kind of process of when we talk to people about video, like not everyone needs a brand story video.
Speaker 2:Some people just need, like, smaller promo videos. Some people just need, you know, the clips based on their, you know their plane and where they're at. And I'm saying with a podcast, like when we walk through people and start their podcast, like they're like oh yeah, we're doing this, this and this, and I'm like you got a lot of iron as a fire. Maybe a podcast is not for you, mm-hmm, because I'm like are you going to outsource? No, we're just going to get it set up. I was like it's a lot of work, mm-hmm, like so and going through that, and then, like you know, probably podcasts unless, like it's like your main thing, it's probably not going to be the best thing with everything else you have, right, you know, almost again like it's all about closing the sale.
Speaker 2:Let's do what's right for that individual or that business to get to that next level, right, and if it's not the right time, that's okay. And hopefully, most of the time, I think people see that and they respect that and they'll either come back or at least they'll refer you or something, and I think doing it right is always better than just pushing for a paycheck, right, so and so, with that, like, if people are trying, so they've got that down, they, you know, they're adding value through these calls. They're trying to, you know, really niche into the, to the driving force behind their clientele, but they're trying to now reach more people to do that. You know you guys talk about we talked about webinar, webinars. What are good ways that people can draw the attention positively to themselves to start those conversations?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean, I think when we look at webinar, that's just a vehicle of converting attention into action, right, right, and email, same thing. It's attention into action, yep. So really it's about how do you get somebody out of where they're at currently and paying attention to you, right, and so, uh, we kind of refer to it as a lake. Okay, the one of the most valuable assets of business is going to have is is their lake of opportunity. It's all the people that you know are on their email list, the people are following them on social people are subscribed on YouTube, right, those are the people that have attention. And so it's really two parts is how do you get folks off of out of somebody else's lake and into yours? And then what do you do to nurture and get those people to raise their hand and ask you for help?
Speaker 3:And so I think what most people fail to understand is the difference between like a lead and a prospect. Like a lead is the top of the funnel, unqualified person that's coming in yeah, and prospect is someone who was a lead that then expressed interest in your stuff yeah, and you know a lot of people go out there to do you know, quote, unquote lead generation, and you know they invest money in ads and then they're like well, the leads suck, yeah. Or maybe if an agency does this for their clients and their client sends a fire on them because they're like the leads suck, well, newsflash, all leads suck. That's the definition of a lead. There's a sucky person who's not interested in your stuff, right? The trick is that you've got to take those leads and then nurture those folks and build a relationship with them.
Speaker 2:So warm them, them, yeah, so Warm them up, exactly.
Speaker 3:So I mean, if you're running ads, if you're running a Facebook ad or you're even attending an in-person networking, there's going to be people handing you business cards. Yep, there'll be people opting in for your stuff through your ads. Right, the mistake is assuming that just because they gave you a business card or opted in, that they're actually interested in your stuff at all. All it in that they're actually interested in your stuff at all. All they've identified, all we've identified, is that they're in the market. They're in your market, yep, and maybe not even a great fit, but they're there. Now, what needs to happen is that we need to nurture and warm them up to get them interested in your stuff.
Speaker 3:Now, it does happen that somebody who opts in is like suddenly ready right away for your stuff. I mean, you can do a scratcher on the lottery and you can win money, but you don't always do it there. You go to a networking event, a chamber of commerce, and you can meet someone who's like I need your thing right now. You can have something like we told the story about our sales guy calling a random company and they're like we're talking about you. It can't happen Absolutely. It's the exception, not the rule, and so the idea is like how can we fish in other people's lake? Right, because you know, you know Mark Zuckerberg lets us fish in Lake. Zuckerberg, you go run ads on his platforms and they can. We can get them out of the, out of his lake and put them into ours. Right, and that's important, because at some point there's going to be this you know, change a snap of of like things just stop working.
Speaker 3:Right, there could be regulations that prevent us from running ads, right? Or there could be a pandemic which prevented us from going out there and talking to people face-to-face, which was a big part of our strategy back then, sure, but then what do you actually own to actually go back in front of people? If you have the lake, you control that attention, you can get back in front of people, and then you can use things like webinars or emails or whatever else to convert that attention into some sort of action. So, like, I see people kind of confusing the fact that they just think they're going to run a campaign or show up something and close it Right. Purpose of a campaign, the purpose of showing up in person, the purpose of any of those things, is to get those folks into a place where you can actually continue the conversation with them and warm them.
Speaker 4:Like if you went to a nightclub and you're like asking every girl to marry you and then you're like, yeah, some of the girls in here suck. None of them want to marry. How do you want to do it? Get to know them a little bit and start to form that relationship over time.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely. Yeah, I think I love that analogy, using that, because you don't just I mean, you get lucky every now and then. Right, yeah, some people you know find it. Yeah, exactly so. But so what is your like? Is it an email list? Is it a Facebook group, kind of? What do you guys utilize? Obviously, it's different for everybody, but what kind of like do you guys draw people into?
Speaker 3:At its core, it is an email that's right.
Speaker 3:I feel like email is one of the like often overlooked uh channels because it's not that sexy, right? It's like, yeah, it's email, it's been around forever. You know, it's not tiktok, it's not youtube channel, it's, but it's, it's the place that's. It's one of the last things you can truly still own and control. Yeah, we're always at the whim of the algorithm and everything else.
Speaker 3:The email and text message, to a certain extent too, is the ability for us to get in front of people. Ultimately, that's where I want to have people. But when people are focused on getting big, say on Instagram, it's like that's a tall order to stand out in this ocean of people. When you have an in control, an email list or text message list, you're like the biggest fish in that small pond, right, and you can stand out like you don't need a huge email list to affect the opinions and understanding with that group of people in a way that's going to financially mean a lot of money to you.
Speaker 3:Like, what's surprising to me uh, not anymore, but it used to be into new people coming into our world is you don't need a big, big email list to turn those folks into into a career, into, like you know, substantial revenue in your pocket every month, right, and I think a lot of people will spend too much time inside of social media. I'm not saying not to do that, but I'm saying like don't put. Don't put. Stack all your chips on the fact of whether or not your social profile is going to blow up and you're going to go viral, right, but when you, if you can get the right people into your lake, into your email list and then build a relationship with them on an ongoing basis, like that's going to turn into real dollars in your pocket a lot sooner. Yeah, it's at least been our experience.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, and I think I mean because we've seen like people like oh, I got a huge TikTok and then they freak out because TikTok could get banned and it's like they would lose all that and they would have nothing, you know. So having that export your list maybe on that email server and still have it if they were to take it down. But yeah, I think that's such a crucial piece that people forget about is creating that lake of their own so they can have a little bit more eyes and attention of everyone, and people focus too much on going viral. When they go viral, most of the time it's not the people they want to be seen anyways, most of the time, which can hurt them.
Speaker 3:And so, to kind of finish the story, what happened during the pandemic for us was when everything shut down and once we realized that there was a certain number of abundance-minded people that needed our help, we sent out an email to the list, several emails. Listen, if you believe that there's more opportunity for you out there if you could just attract the right people and activate them into your services, well then, come to this webinar and we're going to tell you all about it. And, like, we were able to fill a room full of people and at the end of that, we had people booking appointments like crazy, had people booking appointments like crazy, and we turned that into hundreds of thousands of dollars of recurring revenue for the agency because we simply said the right thing to the people who were in our lake already. Yeah, and you know, um, yeah, we were freaked out that everything got canceled at first, but then we're like we can create our own events.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if we have the lake to tap into, we don't have to spend any more money on ads, and so, like, that was a huge eye opener for us. We had all the pieces. We just never had the excuse where we're like you guys, better use the same. You've been building all these. We emailed it from time to time, but we didn't lever it. Like the true powerhouse said it, it could have been, uh, and then we got to witness it firsthand how awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And you know, again, just continue to grow and pivot through all that. And, you know, having the openness and the abundant mindset of, like there are people out there who are wanting to grow still, I think it's a big one because people, there's always going to be uncertainties, there's always going to be. You know, if you do watch the news, there's always going to be something quote unquote fear and things. And so, having that mindset of you know, growth and and you know, I always, I always say I probably overuse it, I say it all works out Like it is what it is. It all work out. You know I want to learn from it, um, or it's going to be positive, like so, uh, and just keep moving forward. Um, so, for those listening, you know, again, they're early on in their, their entrepreneurial journeys. Yeah, as we kind of wrap this episode up, you know what would be. You know some words of wisdom or advice that you would give them. Maybe you wish you heard early on. That could have, you know, maybe given you a little boost, yeah.
Speaker 4:Probably the biggest thing. Like for a long time we didn't realize the importance of having recurring revenue in our business. We were out there chasing large one-time projects, right, and for those for us, those were websites. Like you know, there was a time where we sold websites for five grand. Then we jumped to 10 grand and we jumped to 20 grand.
Speaker 4:At one point I sold a hundred thousand dollar website and I'm like cool, this is amazing. Like all our problems are solved. But guess what, like you know, a couple of months later, like there's no money in the bank again. And then you're like, yeah, and and the more that we sold, right, the the bigger our team got, you know, the more liability we had, the bigger payroll. We needed more space, we needed more equipment, yep, and I almost needed to go out there every month and go get that money right, yeah, and and at the end of every month I had to start a zero again, right, or pretty darn close to it, and I remember it was after selling that hundred thousand dollar website to a local casino here in town. Just feeling like kind of helpless Cause, I'm like where the heck am I going to get another one of those next month?
Speaker 2:I always want to like best my best.
Speaker 4:It's not like I had a few more of those in the pipeline. That took me like six, seven months to close and there's just not a lot of those size business here in town. And uh, still, mike, and I thought when we sold that like gosh, you know, there's, there's a nice cushion in our bank account now and we're not going to have to worry about payroll or an expenses. And it wasn't. But a few months later you know that we felt like we're almost in the same position, right, or you know, we're like that money just kind of vanished and I went to our bookkeeper and said, nancy, like what happened?
Speaker 4:Like we just had the most cash flow run through our business than we've ever had, and now we're back to square one again, and she ran a report that really changed our lives. It was a report of, like, our top 20 customers after a five-year span Right, and I was wholeheartedly expecting the Casino del sol to be number one on that list, right, yeah. And the reality was they were like number 19, wow. And guess who was number one? It was a orthodontist who was paying us two grand a month over the past five years, right, yeah. And hvc company that's paying us 1800 bucks a month yeah, for the past five years. And what was cool about that is I'm like crap, I've been chasing the wrong, right, I've been trying to go get these ones. And, yeah, these are the ones. Like, there's a bunch of orthodontists in town yeah, there's a bunch of hvs, and there's a bunch of plumbers in town, right, all these people. And so it was like man, we shouldn't have been high-fiving the hundred thousand dollar sale. I should have been so high-fiving the two thousand dollar a month contract that we had, right.
Speaker 4:And so we shifted our focus 100% to be on the recurring revenue stuff and digital marketing. And we still do websites. We still have those big projects. Those are kind of the icing on the cake, but it didn't take long maybe a year or less for us to basically build our recurring revenue to where, day one, first day of the month, all of our payroll and expenses are paid and now I don't have to really sell anything that month. And so what that did for us is we could take time off if we have extended periods of time, or we could work on the projects that we knew we needed to work on to make our business better or more scalable, rather than the Hail Marys we kept having to throw just to make ends meet right, and it took a lot of pressure off of us, and we're able to make investments decisions a lot easier right, because we knew that money was there.
Speaker 3:You can start saying no to snowflake projects, yes, or projects that were just not a good fit, were kind of one of a kind, and we said yes to it because the client was like, hey, I've got money, you can take this money and take the project, or I can walk away, yep.
Speaker 4:I take it yeah right, yeah, it's so.
Speaker 2:So I want to hear your. You know stuff, mike too, but this is great. Like again, guys, don't? I don't believe in coincidences. We're down here in production for another client who you know was one of those, like we just dangled the thing and said, yes, we need to, actually needed that. We have a meeting about it, so let's do it. You know, met, I got connected with these two. They're in tucson and just like we're in the exact place that you're talking about, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:Um, like we have reoccurring stuff monthly and then we start getting these bigger. You know, big one deals, um, this year that we've never had prior. Yeah, and it's like, man, these are awesome. But then, after each one, I'm like where did where'd it go? What, just what just happened? Like that was great, and we kind of stopped, focused on the retainer stuff, and so now it's like we're in a position where like, okay, these are great, I love doing this, these big productions, like I really do enjoy them and do all this, but like profitability wise, I said we need more retainer clients so we can continue to scale and grow, just like what you're saying. And so like I'm like, okay, so where we are at a point where, like, we have these clients, we do these productions.
Speaker 2:Then what's the next step? How can we help them after that and and build out the retainer stuff and it's the social media content where we can shoot for them for you know, like a one-time fee, and then we have a smaller retainer per month that we edit those and send it to them, right, and like that's what. And so we're going to, we're starting to focus on that, to get that up again. It's just, it's crazy that you know that was what you mentioned and shared there. So that's awesome. So it makes me feel good, we're on the right page. We're on the right page, we're getting the right traction there. So how about you, mike? What's your kind of advice or guidance?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I think AJ really nailed it on that at like a tactical level. Yeah, like on, like a like at a higher level. I think that you know our businesses that we create, like we get to make them.
Speaker 2:however, we want to right.
Speaker 3:So your choice to, you know, sell ongoing packages of social media, or retainers, or or, if you love doing like these big productions, and that's where your heart is. Like you get to choose right what that's about and you know, business is a game that we get to play, but, more importantly, it's one, as entrepreneurs, we get to design, yeah, and so I think it's like choosing on purpose the way you want your business to work. Like I used to think that there were all these like rules that I had to abide by, like this is the way business works. And like people will line up at your door telling you you need to do it like this, you need to like that, you can't do this, that's not acceptable. Or this is the market rate for this, you can only charge this much. Or like there's so many. Like you know, rules that people want you to believe are true, but in my experience, that as soon as you shine the light on them and challenge them, you can really design it however you want.
Speaker 3:And so as entrepreneurs, we get to build the business the way that we want. So originally we were just building the business. That was a really hard game to play, super hard game, where you have a big team and you're getting these big projects that are few and far between and you're constantly in this feast or famine business cycle where you have cash and projects followed by periods of time where you don't right, right and but you still have the team right, right and so, like that was. The truth was that we set up the game to work that way because of I just like I mean I didn't know, I mean I didn't really have any business experience at all coming into this. I just kind of looked and just figured it out.
Speaker 3:But once we realized that, well, we could just change that, we should, we should charge, you know, monthly for that. And you know, these big productions, we're doing like we don't, we don't do a big, you know we we're going to cover our flights to get out there, but it's going to be a monthly recurring, you know we're going to. We're going to translate that into something else. That's what we did for websites, yeah, for a long time. Nice, instead of doing up front fixed bid website projects we thought we had to do. I was like do you think that clients would pay monthly for that? Instead, turns out they do, so we could stack it that way. So business is a game we get to play, but, more importantly, it's a game we each get to design, and I think it's the days that I remember that is the days that I'm most excited about business, the days that I forget that I'm actually in control of how the game is designed are the ones where I get in a deep dark hole of stress and just don't like not loving life.
Speaker 3:So it's like, if you don't love your business right now, I think the alternative is go off and get a job. Or I would say I'm going to go start a hot dog cart Because at least it's like cash for hot dogs In the worst case scenario I just got to refund a hot dog, and how mad.
Speaker 2:can somebody be at that? Right, right, right it's like.
Speaker 3:But the other alternative that isn't as apparent is well, just change the way your business works. Put yourselves in the rooms of people who know and have already done it. Copy other people's stuff, do it their way right, find the people who've had the same struggle and ask them what they did to change and fix it Right. Like you know, life's an open book test, you know, back in the day in high school. The teacher walks in and she's like pop quiz and everybody groans Right.
Speaker 1:And then she's like but it's an open book test and everyone's like, yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Like why is that that we're excited in that scenario? Right, because life is an open book test. It's actually not common for us to have situations where we don't get to look up the answer or figure it out. But the proud person in me and the lone wolf kind of attitude was like I have to do it all myself. That's not true. It's not true at all. We have a world full of people. We're more connected than ever, and think of in 2003,. My physical reach here in was like the furthest I could really get to learn from other business owners. But here today, now we have the ability to get into the inbox of just about anybody you want. Yeah, really is out there. And the thing that's probably stopping you from doing that is your own mind of like oh, I don't think I should. Or would they even respond to me Like I? You'd be surprised. People want to help people.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And guys, this has been a great conversation, Um, you know we could probably talk for hours, uh, but no, I appreciate it. I appreciate everything you shared, uh, letting people in on your journey, and how you've overcame some stuff and um, added value and and all all that you, the nuggets you gave today. So, again, I appreciate you both being on a daily media podcast today. Where can people connect with you, Um, so they can find out more and get your help if they need it?
Speaker 3:Awesome, so we'll put some stuff over at agency coachcom slash elevate your brand, um, so there'll be some links for some agency trainings, if that's you, um, and you know, my Instagram is Mr Mike Schmidt, so you, so you know, test me go ahead and DM me say, hey, what's up?
Speaker 4:just threw it out there.
Speaker 3:So love to chat with those who want to continue the conversation.
Speaker 2:Cool, awesome well, yeah, guys, thanks so much. Everyone listening. Yeah, make sure you get tuned in to them, check out what they're doing and reach out if you need help.
Speaker 1:So again, until next time, go out there, continue to elevate your life, elevate your brand, and we'll talk to you again soon thank you for Until next time, go out there, continue to elevate your life, elevate your brand, and we'll talk to you again soon.
